💬 Developer Talk: Balancing - 18.09.2020

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    Dear Ascendants,

    A round of DevTalk is here again, and this time the topic is balancing!


    Welcome to join us on 18.09.2020, at 4 PM CEST (UTC+2) in Discord. We will open a separate channel before the event starts. From below, you will find changes we are proposing for the next round starting 30th of September.


    If you have any important questions or feedback about balancing in mind, please use this thread so we are prepared to cover those as well tomorrow, thank you.


    Unit changes:

    • Elves:
      • Suntrunk Charger: 198 Fighting Strength -> 176 Fighting Strength
      • Sky Piercer: 35% in Defense:
        • 50% damage against Infantry
        • Fighting Strength: 495 -> 440
    • Dwarfs:
      • Cratermaker: Fighting Strength: 65 -> 70
      • Mountaincrusher: Fighting Strength: 325 -> 350
      • Supreme Equalizer: 35% in Defense -> 50% damage against Cavalry

    Warlord Changes:

    • Aphaca:
      • 50% chance of dealing critical damage -> Burns the enemy each turn. By each burning 1000 damage area dealt.


    Market

    New max Level Bonus for Market:

    • +50% XP for spending resources to Supplies, Portals or Fortresses →+20% faster construction time for buildings


    Resource Fields

    New production values for high level resource fields to smooth and reduce production on high levels (changes in red):


    Production old Production new
    200 200
    225 225
    250 250
    275 275
    325 325
    375 375
    450 450
    550 550
    700 700
    900 900
    1250 1250
    1800 1750
    2500 2400
    3500 3200
    5000 4200
    7000 5400
    10000 6800
    13500 8400
    17500 10300
    22000 12600
    26500 15600
    31500 19600
    37000 25000
    43000 33000
    50000 44000
  • (edited) How about first of all to make sure that the game runs smoothly in the final phase? Without all the bugs that moonstones disappear or poor ghosts appear and disappear again? Like the anvil, banana is no matter how good you are or how good you have been before, if you are not in the middle of an island you have almost no chance of getting orbs with the running times. Others get it delivered free to their door. And that's supposed to be fair?


    (Google translated by CM)

  • beku#II - The event will be held in English, and we will not be solving bugs during the DevTalk. Please report bugs to the game support so we can help clean those out of the game asap.


    Balancing the game does not compete with fixing bugs. If you have any wishes how to balance the game, or questions, let us know and welcome to join the event tomorrow!

  • Dwarfen cavalary units, the first unit is basicaly useless.


    All dwarfs i know have it by the metric tone, and dont use it, because it is useless.

    Either make it usable for the long game run, create a new unit or stop spamming it so much at the supplies, having more of the T2 units on the supplies, instead of a useless unit...


    PS

    Market change, dont think it is a good change.

    I3 and I4 means a lot of donations, the XP factor leans towards the donations, by changing it, players might not donate as much thus realms will evolve worse.

  • That's another topic. Why is everything here in English? The game, or at least those from whose forge it comes, is a German company. The forum doesn't even have a decent translation function in general. Announcements from you on the subject of endgame cannot be understood because it cannot be translated. And even then it reads totally confused (sometimes it is translated) And you don't get the support at all until you've clicked through all the Sufu's, Christmas is over.


    (Google translated by CM)

  • Dwalin#II(2)


    The DevTalk event is in English so we can get as many participants as possible to share their opinions, from different countries and everyone would have a common language. The game started with English-only rounds, and now we are slowly adding new languages and services for the players.


    On the forum, we have a German language section for the German players, and German channels in Discord. Since the Developer talk is in English, the event was announced here in the EN language section of the forum and all details are in English.

    We apologize for not being able to run a multi-language event or multiple events with the same topic.


    We will be adding discussion areas for Russian and Polish players next.

  • Yes, great because I can look forward to it by first installing a foreign chat to then stand there like an ox in front of the mountain and understand 1% of what is being babbled around tomorrow. Will definitely help me. Look at that, the game works and, above all, it is fair, the endgame (edited). Really big members simply switch from the big islands to the small ones (insel1) before the endgame and then finish the round with 2 men. It's rubbish. Then why create realms? But even with the anvil that they do not change position but always stay in the same place is just as unfair to all others. And should I spend real money on it? Are you stupid? What if the endgame remains a game of chance?


    (Google translated by CM)


    If you already see the translation function is for the bin. my writing will be posted here as if i'm from 1st grade.

  • To be honest this balancing of rss does noting, with almost max production i can't keep up with building troops and buildings... And i have to donate as well... from where exactly?!

    Building times are broken, i've mention that in every survey sent to my inbox... Travel times are mostly ok, conquer dmg is too low, basically there is no pvp before i3: why would i set my troops stuck for SO LONG!? (do i need to sleep? do i need to work?)

    As for unit changes, Dwarfs will still be stronger then elves even with 50% boost on Sky Piercers, and you are lowering elven power even more.


    Warlord change is also sh*t to be honest, i work so hard to get exp and last(TOP) Warlord has bad skill. Early game WLs need adjustments to be used later in game, this way they are just a picture in my deck...

    Market was OP, now for late game instead of getting some exp when you don't fight, no you will get middle finger. I understand that intention is to push players into more fighting, but if i choose not to fight i will fall behind badly.


    Elven skill tree needs cleaning!
    Game sounds are indistinguishable.
    Anvil placement can benefit one realm more then others.
    Players with low level should not be able to join high level realms and vice versa (total level/number of players -15).
    Goblin camp in the town is useless in the late game.
    Early game is very slow...
    Warlords availability for the people w/o money? haha

  • He's right, especially about the anvil. The game is a pure game of chance. Fighting is no longer worthwhile if you yourself have to walk for 6 hours and others just 30 minutes and that, the entire endgame does not change either. Can you just let go of fighting.

  • Changes to market will lead to players not leveling it at all, if they come to realize leveling market requires so much population/time, causing a player to spend more resources each day on buildings. As market does not impact military supplies, the value it provided used to come from the lvl 25 bonus. Players going all resource builds can barely keep up with production and donations even at the highest levels, the resource change hurts casual players, as paid single resource builds will still produce more.

  • Removing the only defence bonus is seems bad. Counters for top tier units of dvarves: || ranged > cavalry > infantry > ranged || make no sense for top WLs (Darrak, Maklaven), because they have all 3 types of troop slots and can not be countered. So it will be just brute force without options.

  • A. Trankard & rubyheart/painsmith vs cerulean & aurora/vortex


    I think its still not fair about how elves can use their cerulean with t4 cavalry while dwarf can only use the low powered t2 cavalry. Then when it comes to infantry, aurora feels much stronger as a Warlord who holds infantry from elves, while dwarf cavalry is soo weak.


    My suggestion is to either :

    1. Swap trankard and painsmith skills, but increase trankard capacity and decrease painsmith capacity.


    2. Increase trankard capacity to make him able to compete with cerulean with t4 cavalry (full equipped can reach 904k power?!), you can also swap lightning paw and thunderjaw advantages.


    B. Poison WL

    I realised poison unit can be strong af too at some point of the game, but again, dwarf poison WL is so much harder to use than elves. Coron can reach 800-900k power easily with the help of artilerry while silk will struggle with the power of T2 cavalry.

    Increasing the capacity of silk may help, because he is currently so weak outside of the fallen game.


    C. Attack troops

    I find it weird for dwarf to have barracks unit up to 5 tier and 2 tier only for stable. While elves has much more versatility with 3 tier of barracks and 4 tier of stable.


    How about swapping the unit there? Put the attack infantry troops as dwarf 1st tier cavalry, and attack cavalry troops as elves 1st tier infantry.


    Why should that happened?

    Because the supply in i4 is kinda unfair.

    You will still got 3 kind of infantry unit as dwarf while elves got 2 of top tier for the cavalry.


    If you move the dwarf infantry, we can have only cratermaker and BB from the supply to make it even with elves which get only whisperer and SC from the supply.

  • The maximum level of XP is not the one who fights, but the one who makes donations and who has the maximum fields. For a military strategy, this is madness. With a 50% change in the market bonus, this system is not going anywhere. Making donations is still more profitable. But perhaps the situation will level out a little. As for balance, Yes, these changes will be enough to make the dwarves a playable race again, unlike C3, where the game was just broken for the dwarves.


    The T1 dwarven cavalry is probably as useless as the T2 elf infantry. They can be used to clear goblins. Trankard and Сerulean have an imbalance. But balance is not absolute uniformity in everything. You can strengthen the dwarves in something else. (Which in General has already been done)


  • I didn't want to quote your whole thingy. I think in general all your problems can be solved by adding a 3rd cavalry to dwarves, because dwarves cavalry is a wasteful slot so much of the time. All the dwarves in my realm are just suiciding the horses, not caring about counter or whatever. They all have way too many of them anyways, getting 300+ pr. supply, it's insane.

    On to topic:
    I assume there will be another dev-talk about endgame so I will hold my thoughts on that matter, and talk solely unit balance as I see it.

    Income nerf: I think it's going to hit very hard on Moonphase 2 and 3, and moonphase 1 and 4 are pretty much unchanged. Though the hard reduction in income will (I think) impact how many buildings and which buildings people max. It also does not change that troop supplies > resource supplies. Will have to see how it really impacts next server, can't say much about it without trying it.

    Units:
    The changes in general seem fine to me, but like Schneeente mentions: Nerfing both Apache and her troops, is a double-hit to the usefulness of the warlord. Algus or Corona will probably be the prefered Artillery warlords after the nerfs.
    Personally, I think the attack and defense bonus are interesting, and I don't dislike them persay. The problem is that, having the defensive bonus on the strongest units ingame means that is it nearly impossible to remove a portal once it has been put down, and attacking towers near portals/arks are so hard. Sure both SC and BB "counter" the Artillery, but really, they are just negating the bonus, so it's still a 800k warlord fighting a 1,1m warlord ish. Paintsmith's skill also gives him 0 points when fighting, so really all dwarves have are Rubyheart.
    The attack bonus is also weird. When someone is attacking you, you can just wait untill they are inside your tower, and then attack them with tons of Valkyrian beserkers / Daggertooths and even though you lose the fight it doesn't matter, because you can use it to remove their stronger units such at Cratermakers, Breathing bastions, Suntrunk chargers etc. And you can't use them when attacking anyways, because the enemy will you let you go inside the tower before they attack you. It heavily favours defenders, even though it is an attacking bonus.

  • Iam agree with the change of market. This game is realms at war. Not realms at sims.

    And we have warlord not sims lord. Look at the top lvl player. How many troops they kill? (Before end game) No sense when you play war games but people just open the game donate. build troops for goblin. Attack goblin for orb. Then got the higher lvl than someone sending troops for defend. Attack other realms. Watch realms if there any incoming attack. Refill troops and send on watch. How much effort did they do? Lol


    About the troops.


    The good think if elf get a top tier troops for defend infan. I always thinking how to defend incoming infan troops. But the big difrence on aphaca. Now he will nerf hardly. Ya good. Before I used aphaca nearly 1 mln. Win a Fight with 13 warlord with total 3 mln.

    So now dwarf and elf will equal. They have top tier troops which have 50% bonus to any kind of troops. Dwarf player not need elf player anymore


    Out of box

    If someone thinking anvil for realms who nearby. "Yes" for eternal orb. But "no" about unstolen orb. All realms in the island have the same change. And it have 35 change to try get that orb.

    Thx

  • Even after i read the dev-talk but did not participate i can't see justification of the proposed changes. MANY problems that weaker realms could be evaded by limiting storage to 4 buildings and replacing the mill with armory in the unlocking sequence in the citadel.


    As for exp from the investing it is ok, just market boost should be 25% or 20%, i would not change it completely and for additional bonus at level 20 could be the building speed or make it incremental, every 5 levels to increase for 5%.


    At the very end of the game you MUST be able to build all to max, and have a decent army.


    I like the game as it is, and balancing something does not mean changing completely.

    Off topic: The game needs additional race or two. WHY? It would be much easier to balance a triangle or a square then a single strait line, ask engineers they will confirm.

  • S3 was my first round. But I think theer had to be a change. If you like to do a war game attackers had to be stronger then defenders. In the moment with the big T3 attelery defenders are in the better postion.

    And I also think that Trankard is a nice Warlord but can not match Cerulean. There had to be a better cavalery unit for dwarfs or you had to change special with Painsmith (balancing him by degrading his slots).

    And there had to be a better balancing between the resurce suplies and the military supplies. In the moment it makes no sense having resource suplies. The steps by downgrading the production is a good step in this direction but I think you have to do more.

  • General thoughts on the matter:


    The defensive bonus is not inherently a bad trait, it should stay in the game. Instead of getting rid of it entirely again, it might be better to simply fine tune the numbers on both the trait and the T3 art.


    I suggest to nerf the trait from 35% to 25% and also reduce the overall power of the T3 art along with the number adjustment written down. So, 495 > 440 in regards to the elvish SP.


    The change to infantry or cavalry damage would make both units fairly niche and the warlords used as well. This is also why Aphaca doesn’t need any change at all, as it was already suggested in the talk and in the forum.


    Another thing entirely is the usefulness of Valks and Daggertooths. Personally, I like the Attack buff, but its not enough to make both units desirable at all. I would suggest to buff the attack bonus from 35% to at least 75%. This way both units could be a viable choice for at least island 2, before they become obsolete again. If they are supposed to be throw away attack troops, then let them be just that in the very least.


    Market


    20% faster construction time sounds nice on paper, but it isn’t very desirable once endgame hits. I would suggest to nerf the overall exp gain by donations by 30% throughout the entire game and keep the 50% bonus for endgame to emphasize realms to work together in reaching donation goals. Donation exp will still be heavily nerfed this way and the market will still be a very desirable building to have.


    Also increase the Exp gained by combat by at least 50-80% to compensate.


    Resource Fields


    I do not see any reason or benefit at all why it is a good decision to nerf the income of players. I would heavily suggest against it. If donations are a problem, adjust donation numbers and value but do not touch resource generation, as it will only hurt players who do not wish to donate at all and make personal town building even less desirable than it currently is. I don’t believe this is necessary or a good idea at all. I highly disagree with this.


    If you nerf the income of players by buildings, implement other options to even it out again. Perphaps a "salvage" mechanic for winners of pvp battles that let you obtain 15-20% of the total destroy unit costs of that battle.