BALANCE ANALYSIS - Dwarfs OP

  • 1. Personally, u made finally a real statement what isn't just shouting out that "Dwarfs aren't too strong" blah blah blah.


    2. It's not about Morale at all. - If u had checked what I was saying u would got it right away, that there is no proper counter to -25% Mitigation besides 1 payable warlord. Because Cicatrix is falling off.


    3. Realistic settings are not given. Do to effects of items included are Trigger of Critical Chances or Lightning Boots or Poison Daggers.


    As your "realistic" example provides on countering as defender - it's pretty easy to deal with and we all know that. As well not everyone is playing Mollus 3x SC or WH. I never said that Elven warlords are that bad, I was going for other points but sure. - If u are talking about realistic you rarely fight an opponent who is equal or even too you.

    Just like those Giant Attacks on lower realms before the EXP Nerf Update.

    They main issue starts on early-game if dwarfs get boosted right away. Elves probably don't get to the late game or how are u explaining that most of the giant realms over 50m Power are 60% dwarfs at least?


    I really appreciate your feedback of the view from a dwarf player, but did u played an Elf as well?

    Or is your opinion only based on your own feelings and suggestions?

  • They main issue starts on early-game if dwarfs get boosted right away. Elves probably don't get to the late game

    I'd argue that without the TG the elves far superior to the dwarves in early game.

    Because they have (they had) 2 gobo-killer units and because they get Vortex early on.


    how are u explaining that most of the giant realms over 50m Power are 60% dwarfs at least?

    The majority of Murx-players thought at the start of the round that dwarves are clearly superior to elves.

    And since 13 out of the top20 players are Murxies, that explains the imbalance. Not because elves were better, but because we picked 10xdwarves and 5xelves. If we had picked 10xelves and 5xdwarves we'd have a lot more elves in the top20 now.




    I really appreciate your feedback of the view from a dwarf player, but did u played an Elf as well?


    We played elf last round. That's my reason for playing dwarves this time(my dual had other reasons :p)

    Additionally we talk via voice daily with our teammates (5 of them are elves, 4 of them are constantly available on voice).. and compare our experiences talk about strengths and weaknesses of both races...

  • Point 1:

    I was not directly comparing those 2 was just the picture because

    "someone said something like the 35% boost is always applied to against race x"


    But I think comparing the skills of the warlords on early to mid vs late could be very interesting.

    But that's only my opinion.


    Point 2:


    We definitly need a simulator for more examples.

    Since S3 comes with +35% Bonus on Attacks early game.

    It will be early an init. Game.


    Due to building times of Valky's of 150 building time.
    You can build 4 who get a 140 power output. Avg. timer of 600.

    While the counter is Petrifier's of 200 building time.

    You can build 3 who get a 132 power output. Avg. timer of 600.


    140x0,35 = 49 + 140 = 189

    132x0,5 = 66 + 132 = 198


    but Valky's are getting useless for S3 bc of -50% against Petrifiers.

    with 70 power. They are a joke. While Petrifier get +25%.


    if we keep Equinox vs Staunchbraid for example so actually u have.


    132x0,15 = 151,8x0,25 = 189,75 Dmg output.

    If the attack value applies of the +35% Valky's are weaken by -15% still.

    140x0,15 = 140 - 21 = 119 Dmg output.


    For me the S3 changes are making Dwarfs kinda useless against Elves Infr. - by taking 2 Anti - Infr. troops out from 3 possible options.


    While Elves just looses the Sky Piercer what is as well only 1 out of 2 Options to counter Artillery.


    But whatever.


    Point 3:

    There should be an Equal Lvl Unlocking on both Techtree's with similar Techs for economy I don't think it should be exactly the same to keep it unique. But there should atleast be an option to gain atleast 6% on early stage for elves to make it more equal.


    I can life with an 3% disadvantage on buildingtime aslong I get some early on available.

  • We played elf last round. That's my reason for playing dwarves this time(my dual had other reasons :p)

    Additionally we talk via voice daily with our teammates (5 of them are elves, 4 of them are constantly available on voice).. and compare our experiences talk about strengths and weaknesses of both races...

    Those are feedbacks I can finally work with! As a newer player, I can figure more things out if u are giving me such kinds of advice. For me as a 2 weeks to late starter dwarfs felt overpowered af.

    I'd argue that without the TG the elves far superior to the dwarves in early game.

    Because they have (they had) 2 gobo-killer units and because they get Vortex early on.

    Since we are going to S3 Vortex is still a thing. - But I played my first round as a total "F2P" - User.
    And there was no Vortex for me... so it was still kinda rough cuz early game Warlords are not offering much in my opinion for elves. Because of the small options u have, but that's my opinion.

    The majority of Murx-players thought at the start of the round that dwarves are clearly superior to elves.

    And since 13 out of the top20 players are Murxies, that explains the imbalance. Not because elves were better, but because we picked 10xdwarves and 5xelves. If we had picked 10xelves and 5xdwarves we'd have a lot more elves in the top20 now.

    As I was looking for the Tech - Tree's I noticed that the Dwarfs Tech - Tree Only compared for economy costs 48 points, while elves was around 38 nearly 40. (without most of the dungeon part) So was that one of the main issues for you dwarfs? Because u had to switch more often for new skilling depending on situation?

  • The main reason was that we were all agreeing that Detonatresses are insanely OP.


    And then we started as dwarves and Arkheim had changed how the battle-system works (they nerfed initiative) and suddenly those detos weren't as OP as we expected them to be... but because Arkheim didn't announce those changes and implemented them literally on the last day without telling anyone, we were essentially pranked.


    Okay, if you don't have Vortex Elves do become less powerful. But you should be able to afford Vortex from the saphires you get from quest-rewards. It's worth it.


    Building-time-reduction is not as useful as it was last server because of the moonphases. Of course it's still good but the hype some players make over it is exaggerated. Especially in the beginning and in the end it really isn't that big of a deal.

  • Can you think of any reason why I should choose a dwarf instead of an elf? Previously, the dwarves had advantages in speed of construction, in artillery and infantry. Now the only advantage the dwarves have is an advantage in the infantry, in all other indicators they lose to the elves.


    Mobility, speed of construction of buildings, cavalry, artillery, the tree of talents and the ability to improve them. Not to mention a purely visual contradiction, when the wooden artillery of the elves shoots harder than the dwarven machines. This is amazing.


    And at the same time, the races differ less and less from each other in terms of heart. There are no specializations and" chips", for example, such as the speed of construction.

    Or something like that. It's just that the Elves have become stronger, but at the same time even more like dwarves.

  • Can you think of any reason why I should choose a dwarf instead of an elf? Previously, the dwarves had advantages in speed of construction, in artillery and infantry. Now the only advantage the dwarves have is an advantage in the infantry, in all other indicators they lose to the elves.


    Mobility, speed of construction of buildings, cavalry, artillery, the tree of talents and the ability to improve them. Not to mention a purely visual contradiction, when the wooden artillery of the elves shoots harder than the dwarven machines. This is amazing.


    And at the same time, the races differ less and less from each other in terms of heart. There are no specializations and" chips", for example, such as the speed of construction.

    Or something like that. It's just that the Elves have become stronger, but at the same time even more like dwarves.

    Leaving visual aspects aside, dwarfs have some serious advantages.
    building construction bonus is available sooner for them (unlocks at lvl16. at lvl 19 they have 9% construction speed discount. For elves it becomes available at lvl34 only.)
    DW combat power grows faster initially (mastery points give 4% slot increase per point and is available sooner)
    Single resource strategy is more convenient (iron in more demand from donations point of view)
    DW have overall higher initiative (attack first)

    not sure what you mean by mobility. If you mean WL speed, it is the same for both races. Dwarfs have a couple of slower and couple of faster WLs, so there is more flexibility for them.
    Speed of construction of buildings I the same (dwarfs have a little bonus mentioned above)

    Overall there are variations between races, and none of them is OP. You can argue about nuances, but nothing is really broken, which is what is important for the gameplay, regardless of personal preference.

  • Yes, Yes, of course, that's it. And that's why 90% of the top players I know are playing elves in the new round, even if they've always played dwarves before. You're an elf yourself. Who are you trying to fool?


    In your so-called analysis, you did not mention many nuances, but on the contrary, you mentioned unimportant ones. (After all, the speed of construction is so important at low levels, well, well...) I won't even argue with it, although I have at least half a page of arguments. I am very sorry that I chose the dwarves, this race is now disabled, not in comparison with the elves and their advantages.


    PS You can compare the artillery, you can compare the cavalry, and if you besides the theory would participate in many battles, you would still know a lot of nuances of using such heroes as Cerulean in mass battles with their T3 and T4 cavalry, and why they become extremely strong at a certain stage. And why the slow cavalry of T2 dwarves will fly away in mass battles like peas from the wall, etc. And many other nuances, I will not even write about it, only a blind person can not see this clear imbalance.