💬 Unit and Race balancing - Prepare for DevTalk

  • Dear Ascendants,

    Please join us in Developer Talk on Friday 26th of June 2020, at 4:00 PM CEST (UTC+2)

    The DevTalk will be a live chat event in Discord, and our topic is Unit and Race Balancing.

    From below, you will find our balancing plans for a new round. These numbers are based on feedback how the unit values could be changed, and how to make higher tier units more valid options. We have marked the changes with red color.

    If you have any questions about these values, or if you have other questions or feedback to share about unit and race balancing, please add your questions in this thread. We will prepare for the Friday's DevTalk with your comments in mind.

    Click to enlarge
    Values of current round: Dwarfs

    Click to enlarge
    Values of the current round: Elves

    Unable to join the Developer Talk on Friday?
    No worries, a summary of all the main points, questions and answers can be found from the forum some time after the event.

    Welcome, and see you soon!
    Your Arkheim Team

  • Some of these suggested changes are not marked (ie. Mountaincrushers giving 5 instead of 4 fallen) and some of these marked changes are actually not changes (ie. Cratermaker already has 60 FS). Is it possible to get the current values in brackets for example?

  • what needs fixing as well are the mastery trees for both factions, for whatever reason dwarf talents are just superior to elves talents, all BUT initiative and speed where elves get a minuscule advantage in (which gets offset by the fact that dwarfs have MORE overall initiative on their units than elves D147 vs E135 in total)

    i would suggest to lower the price of T3/T4 units as well. It will still be better to just spam T2 units in terms of cost/time effectiveness.

    for the cost of 1x whisperer for example, you could also produce 2.x blackhunches and get a way with more overall power AND a faster production time, so either buff t3+ harder or maybe adjust their cost/time ratio


  • I would return units with a bonus to defense, and perhaps I would add units with a bonus to attack.

    Please no. Most broken shit, with big nerf of strategy (counter, order etc)
    Whenever you def ==> throw this unit. When you attack and land before the defenser : throw this unit.

    Or atleast, no return with 50% but 15 or 20%.

  • Actually I know that I've said nobody builds those T3+ units, but the change (no 50% defensive bonus) did have a bigger impact than anticipated and some high tier units are actually worth building right now.

    It makes sense not to buff units that are already being build and buff those who don't get build.

    TJ and WH therefore don't need a buff.

  • Actually I know that I've said nobody builds those T3+ units, but the change (no 50% defensive bonus) did have a bigger impact than anticipated and some high tier units are actually worth building right now.

    It makes sense not to buff units that are already being build and buff those who don't get build.

    TJ and WH therefore don't need a buff.

    for the lazy which unit is TJ and WH? also from another topic:

    defence already gives you a lot of advantages to perfectly counter the attackers composition, but more casual players will not do that, because it means more effort

    if you then also implement strong defensive units, attacking other perhaps equal realms will be even less desirable than it currently is, portals are already near impossible to destroy

    just to keep in mind

  • If you cannot work out which units I am referring to when I say that TJ and WH don't need any buffs, you should probably not participate in talks that require an exceptionally keen understanding of the game in general, its mechanics and interactions.

    No offense.

    Def-Bonus on Tier1 units would destroy current tactics (realms don't need to bother countering anything) while def-bonus on SE/SP would add another layer of tactics to the game.

    Additionally: We really have to pay attention not to buff t2/t3 too much, the goal must be that it still makes sense to build t1 units in the right circumstances.

    A possible solution: Make (T2 and) T3 really expensive and just a tiny bit stronger. Like 200% increase in cost but "only" 30% increase in FP for example.

  • Honestly, what I can read from those changes is that most of dwarf infantry are becoming obsolete as they are already worst and we will have no way to fight against elvs at lower levels at all. Valkyrian Berserker are already too bad to use, and you are going to increase the unlock level? So we only have 1 anty gob that will also have to do the pvp.

  • Summary of Developer Talk

    Topic: Defense bonus

    Some players are missing the +50% defense bonus units, while others aren't. The defense bonus is seen as a "casual" way to send the right troops when defending. Good for new or struggling realms with smaller number of members. Smaller defense bonus was suggested (+35%). Option to build expensive and dedicated defense units would make calculating easier for more casual players.

    +50% defense bonus unit is not the only solution. Attack and defense bonuses are good ideas, but this could be implemented (as a combination) with Warlord items, Warlord ability, masteries or with smaller unit bonuses.

    Defense bonus units could be active only when defending your own territory, fortifying your own towers. When you send a Warlord to a Tower, what if you got a defensive bonus for each hour it is stationed there (up to a cap).

    Stalemates should be avoided when discussing defense bonuses. Experienced realms can use defense units just as inexperienced.

    Topic: Fighting strength

    Fighting strength is overrated: Much rather fight 3x with 300k army than once or twice with 450k. Perhaps the model needs tuning.

    Topic: Scaling/balancing wishes and suggestions

    • Grow the slot size bonus from masteries and runes
    • Reduce training time of top tier units (or archers) or make supplies produce more of them
    • All units would have their uses and no unit would be useless
    • Bleed, losing side will lose 5-15% of troops after battle
    • Add Warlords with defense bonuses
    • More races, and more distinct races

    You can find the whole chat log in Discord

  • Another suggestion could be adjustable "morale"...

    Warlords would have a max morale (as now), but that number can go up or down, depending on success or failure on the battlefield.

    The "morale" setting can then be adjusted by the player, up to the max as determined by factors mentioned above...

    We all know that most batlles end, not by one of the warlords running out of troops, but running out of morale. A slider could be introduced to set the "morale" level at which the warlord will retreat. If set at max, and with a 100% "morale pool" the warlord wil fight until not a single soldier is left alive. This would of course mean, that he can inflict far more damage, but would also lead to extremely heavy losses.

    Such a setting could be used for "desperate defenses", for example, making it possible to defend against strong incoming attacks. This setting should be hidden from opponents, and would mean that you never quite know what you're up against until the actual battle takes place.